Where Does Oppo Stand?

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 11/07/2018 at 21:40 • Filed to: Debate

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On the 370Z? In my opinion: Good engine, decent noise (until you make it loud AF), overpriced new (worse than the Challengers and Chargers that go unchanged), a good car used.

sony1492 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:44

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They will be the optimal used s ports cars to hack up i n about 15 years when they near rock bottom depreciation

Spanfeller is a twat > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:44

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Too old. 

jimz > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:45

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it hasn’t been changed in like forever. 

CB > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:45

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I like it, but I wouldn’t buy one new.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:46

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FM platform came out in 01, engine came out in 08. They’re still selling for obscene price used for seriously old tech.

If you can get one on the cheap and unmolested? Sure why not? Love their styling and the 370 has aged great (350 not so much). 

bob and john > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:46

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in canada, the base car is 30K CAD (22.3K USD) , a nismo is 50K cad (38K USD)


base car, its a decent platform for RWD shenanighans if you dont want to deal with an american interior.

its the quitisential: made like they used to be’ car. but with how long the tooling has been paid off for, I think nissan could stand to drop the asking prices into the  low 20 K range for the base model. 

boredalways > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:46

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All good points but you forgot the most important one: IT’S OLD AF AND NEEDS A NEW VERSION TO COMPETE WITH THE BMW SUPRA.

* I don't know why I'm internet yelling other than it's close to bed time for boredalways. sorry.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:49

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Engine is actual trash, hilariously overpriced for being 10 years old, will be bought used by stancebros and promptly permanently ruined.

That being said, I still kinda like the Nismo variants .

aquila121 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:53

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The interior is as dated as the rest of the car compared to it's competition. I second that Nissan could still move units far better if they dropped the price.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:54

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I chose a TLX over one...

way2blu does a rev update > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:55

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Considering the original “Z Concept” that led to this car came out in 1999, I’d say this is the last ‘90s design still in production.

There’s been no truly “revolutionary” changes to the design ethos since it came out almost 20 years ago.

I know opinions vary on the merits of making the same car for that long, but I say it’s a good thing. We need more “old car” new cars besides just the Miata.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 11/07/2018 at 21:56

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At least they’ve been building them for so long that it’ll probably be hilariously easy to find parts for them for the next few decades.

nermal > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 21:58

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It needs to be updated to compete with the new Supra .

They need to make it more wedge-y, stuff a twin turbo V6 in it and some T-tops, and call it the 300zx again. Go all 90s retro on it. All of the Zack Morris wannabes are now in their 40s and some of them have some disposable cash.

Chuckles > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul 11/07/2018 at 21:59

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I loved the styling of the 350z right up until the day that I first saw the 370z. Now I have a hard time liking the 350z. But under the right circumstances I'd still take either one.

Mini Guy- Now has a 4Runner > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 22:01

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Meh.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul 11/07/2018 at 22:01

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Agree... old tech, dated design.

Disagree... chassis design seems to be well done, and fundamentals don’t change much over time. dimensions are good, four wheel independent SLA suspension front-mid, rear-drive... a solid formula.

Agree... WAY too much money for a new car without any advantage over buying used, and in some cases, resale is still too high on used.

-caveat... Nissan Z resale is high because there isn’t anything else like it to compete with it... Miata/86 are smaller, less powerful. Muscle cars are bigger and heavier, and V8s are even more expensive and overkill.

350hp/tq V6 sports cars are an extremely sparse class anymore.

Evora and Porsche 911 are premium nameplates , and have to get older models to compete on used-resale value with later-model Zs , and for Porsche, cars that were inherently built better in the first place.

VERY MUCH disagree... A clean 350Z appeals to me, but they can easily get to look ridiculous.

A 370Z almost always looks bad, with a ridiculous front-peaked roof, and awkward A-pillar. A sharp front end, and a bulbous and re ar end don’t look good together, the light fixtures are gimmicky, and the early cars look like they have lower jaw fangs in the grille. Even clean 370Zs still have inherent design deficiencies that rasp my eyes.

I’d buy a used, clean 350Z. I would buy a used clean Porsche 996 or even an early Evora before I would buy a late-model 370Z, and I would not buy new from Nissan until they offer something worth earning my hard-earned dollars for their new car sale.

CompactLuxuryFan > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 22:05

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I like the idea of it. But t he G37 looks better and costs the same. A nd can be had as a sedan . And has a way better interior without that awful digital display on the dashboard.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 22:11

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My opinion? I think the Genesis Coupe has comparable specs, is better looking, and can be ha d for much much cheaper.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 11/07/2018 at 22:20

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How is the engine trash? There’s something I don’t know?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 11/07/2018 at 22:21

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This is a good take.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > nermal 11/07/2018 at 22:21

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We need another 300zx.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > boredalways 11/07/2018 at 22:21

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That’s why I mentioned the Challenger and Charger.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > CB 11/07/2018 at 22:22

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No one should buy one new anymore.

BeaterGT > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 22:22

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I drive a Nismo 370Z about once a month and spouted off here about it before if there’s anything you want to know in particular. Obviously it needs a refresh. Even the guy who owns it says it needs a refresh.

Interior: The seats are awesome and it’s small but it’s a sports car . The infotainment or lack thereof is trash. The Nismo with tech package even has blank buttons if that’s something that bothers you. But it’s a sports car.

Exterior: Dated, but works. Wish there were more colors but even silver doesn’t look bad.

Driving: I enjoy the 6 speed in the Nismo. Very direct, no vague feeling. I don’t like the rev match feature, but would still like to try it on a circuit if given the chance. Has plenty of tire underneath so it feels very planted in turns. I think the power output is fine for the size of the car, anything more might be a handful.

Overall, I like driving it but there are better options for the money.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 11/07/2018 at 22:23

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Wheelbase is about 11" longer; not exactly direct competitors.

Nick Has an Exocet > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 22:25

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So many other cars I’d rather have, but also wouldn’t kick one out of bed.

The problems are price, weight, and noise (for the price). For $25k, you could have one of these used or you could have a 3 year old Mustang GT with 450HP. 

Nauraushaun > nermal 11/07/2018 at 22:33

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Yes pls.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BeaterGT 11/07/2018 at 22:44

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What would you rather for the money? A Camaro or Mustang comes to my mind.

SmugAardvark > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 22:44

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Neat cars. Most Nismo versions are automatic. That makes me sad.

Wouldn’t pay new prices, would consider if I needed a weekend car and the right deal came along. Otherwise, the fact that they are visually antiquated doesn’t bother me. It’s a fine looking vehicle.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Nick Has an Exocet 11/07/2018 at 22:44

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Exactly.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 22:47

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I don’t mind it. Enthusiasts cry for a back to basics sports car. 370z is N/A, manual, RWD, & minimal tech. Nissan delivers that. The MSRP is one thing, but dealers discount the hell out of them. Also don’t forget that it is a great platform car, massive after market support for them.

For price it starts at 2K less then a Miata up here, & (I think) it way more car then a Miata will ever be for the money(see my point farther up). Once you get into the NISMO the price is about $3k more then Mustang GT Premium. The Mustang is way more car then a 370z for the price. So is kinda awkward in that sense.

One more point. There are not many sports coupes left, everyone is moving to crossovers. Once the the Z comes back in the next Gen as a crossover people will cry for the old one, look at the Mitsubishi Eclipse. So embrace the old kid.

The Dummy Gummy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 22:49

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I wish the rear view visibility wasn’t abysmal. O n the bright-side you won’t see the cops behind you?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > SmugAardvark 11/07/2018 at 22:56

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No one should pay new prices. A used one is a bargain IMO.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 11/07/2018 at 22:56

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I want the next Z to be a 300zx type of car.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > The Dummy Gummy 11/07/2018 at 22:58

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Like a Camaro! Which is the better choice.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 11/07/2018 at 23:10

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RWD V6 sporty manual coupes with around 350hp and weigh about 1500kg? Ye s, these are clearly two completely different vehicles that would never ever be cross-shopped.

smobgirl > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 23:14

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My Camry-loving mother likes them. 

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > smobgirl 11/07/2018 at 23:16

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That’s positive.

Wagon Guy drives a Boostang > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 23:18

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I was a Nissan/Datsun guy for years, but never really liked the 350/370z. I glanced at them again when I bought my Boosta ng, but with no changes to them over the years and the lack of a back seat of any kind it got crossed off the list quickly. The mustang back seat may be small, but it’s OK for occasional use which is what I need.

BeaterGT > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 23:21

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The latest gen Nismo seems to range from 32 to 48 (lol) so any of the pony cars would do. C6Z/C7 are in that range as well. I think G70/Stinger would be interesting alternatives.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 23:33

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The VQ (Is it still a VQ?) Sounds like total garbage. The strut bar in the back is part of the unibody and makes the car unusable as anything but a weekend warrior. Looks are ok but way overpriced. I'll have a Genesis 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/07/2018 at 23:45

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I’m wondering the same...

AestheticsInMotion > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/08/2018 at 00:17

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I agree with you on everything. I also like the looks, although less so with the nismo

Saracen > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/08/2018 at 00:25

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I’m not a fan of the engine at all. Yeah, it makes a lot of power. But man, it’s thrashy. My ‘99.5 Maxima SE had a shitty chassis, but god that VQ30DE engine was so good. So smooth and powerful (I once left it in third on the highway because I didn’t notice how high it was revving without looking at the tach), and sang a sweet song.

I’ve driven a lot of VQ powered Nissans, with 3.0's, 3.5's, 4 liters and the “high rev” 3.7. The VQ lost that incredible smoothness every time the displacement got punched out. The 370Z is the absolute worst, because the redline got bumped up along with that displacement. I don’t know what it is, maybe Nissan sucks at designing a balance shaft. But they are SO coarse at the upper rev range and sound terrible to me. It feels like Nissan dropped a truck engine under the hood. Simply awful.

Looks hideous too, and the interior is terrible.  Handling is OK.  Tuned a bit too much towards understeer though.

I was hoping Nissan would go back to the basics...I was so excited about a production version of the IDx with a small four cylinder.  But they disappointed me as usual.

Saracen > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/08/2018 at 00:26

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Per my post.  Coarse and thrashy.  Unbefitting of a sports car.

Decay buys too many beaters > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/08/2018 at 02:02

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Expensive, heavy, and underpowered. If buying new you’d be insane to not buy a mustang instead. 

Great used bargain though. 

Captain of the Enterprise > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/08/2018 at 05:42

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I think it desperately needs to be replaced. But think they are kinda cool. 

Discerning > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/08/2018 at 07:30

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It’s an ok car. By performance car standards: Average chassis, average engine, mediocre transmission, mediocre brakes, dated interior. It's perfectly fine for its power and weight. I don't understand the hate - unless the owners are to blame.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > nermal 11/08/2018 at 09:33

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They have had 4 of these in the last 2 weeks on Bring A Trailer.

They’ve all gone for $ 18-20K, for clean, low-mile early-1990s TT examples.

Probably significantly higher than 350Z resale.

nermal > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/08/2018 at 09:46

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Advertised prices for a 2016 370z start at about $22k. Going older doesn’t drop the price by much.

The 370z is not a bad used buy if you think about it.

The 90s 300zx sounds like a great buy, it’s unlikely to drop in value and will probably go up over time.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BeaterGT 11/08/2018 at 09:47

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Nice review.

... it’s small but it’s a sports car. // I think the power output is fine for the size of the car, anything more might be a handful.

This is the impression I get, too. Cozy, but not too cramped. Just enough size to be comfortable behind the wheel, but no extra body size and mass that isn’t needed. That is pretty much my textbook definition of a sports car.

Miata and BRZ are too small for me. They work for others, which is fine, but a car that I can’t fit in, is not something I can properly drive with undivided attention.

Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, and others, are sport coupes, and muscle cars simultaneously, but they have extra body mass (3-500lbs more on average, ~10-15% increase ) for 2nd-row seats, and structural considerations for overkill engines that ARE a handful.

350/370Z is in that goldilocks size range it is just too bad that it is the ONLY thing in that size range that is affordable.

Porsche 996/Boxster/Cayman, and Lotus Evora, BMW i8, maybe the new Z4 and Supra, are perhaps in that range, but are mostly way  above affordable, other than the used, out-of-warranty 1999-2005 Porsches. Even if some of them (996/Evora/i8) have vestigial rear seats, they are basically parcel shelves, and the cars wouldn’t really benefit from being much shorter of wheelbase, and would just be more cramped again.

BeaterGT > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/08/2018 at 09:51

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Agreed, the Z is the perfect size for a sports car! I thought about comparing it to a Miata/BRZ but it has way more grunt and tire than those cars.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 11/08/2018 at 10:10

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I want the next Z car to be a steel and aluminum affordable alternative to BMW i8, the way the S30 Nissan 240Z was an affordable steel alternative to the Jaguar E-type.

Take something futuristic, and premium that is impressive, but out of reach... pare down the luxury and bespoke-built aspects, and build something similar out of common parts and ready materials, and sell to the general public, rather than just the wealthy.

I don’t care if Nissan needs to pick another letter... a mid-engined multi-mode PHEV true-performance hybrid would be incredible.

The same guy who built an electric race car 350Z, also built an electric Lotus Evora out of 5 or 6 Chevy Volt battery pack modules, and a Tesla Model S 75KW drive unit, and a Motec controller (with some added electronic control interface piece to hack the Tesla drive unit to think it was still in a Tesla)

~ 450hp/tq almost instantly at any ground speed, and driver-adjustable regenerative braking.

Imagine a lot less batteries needed, probably significantly less electric motor truly needed, if paired as a hybrid drive unit with the variable-compression turbo I4 that Infiniti is putting in their sporty little CUV.

350-400 or slightly higher combined burst output would be fine, from an electric and gas power units that are each less powerful and more efficient,  individually.

If Chevy can sell Volt and Malibu Hybrid under 40K... I would think Nissan could sell a performance “ tuned” PHEV with that variable compression engine as a generator, or cruise-regen charger on low-compression, high-efficiency mode, or high combined burst output on high-compression mode, with electric drive also engaged, like i8, but without the Carbon Fiber Monocoque, and luxury stuff.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/08/2018 at 11:25

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https://youtu.be/If09etyztl8

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 11/08/2018 at 18:44

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Genesis V6 Coupe... again... another nearly-right car, that I just can’t bring myself to WANT to look at.

Gen Coupe straddles the line between 350/370Z and Mustang/Camaro, where the Z is a true 2-seat sports car, without a second row seat, nor the weight in the structure for that extended wheelbase. Z itself has straddled that line with previous generation 2+2 stretched-wheelbase versions, as well as G35 and G37... but they do tend to add just a bit of weight, and stretch the wheelbase to track width ratio, which sometimes isn’t a bad thing for vibration and harshness on broken pavement, but tends to sacrifice a slight edge of nimble cornering.

But the side window graphic of the Gen Coupe, and the dowdy front and rear ends... the trunk lid, rather than a rear hatch... the car isn’t gorgeous.

The 350Z isn’t much better, and the 370Z IS worse, at least to my eye.

Maybe form follows function, but if I can’t admire the looks, then I have a hard time justifying the lack of practicality.

Kind of like an * ugly* unflattering party dress/shoes for your wife/significant other/date/ alter-ego/whatever ... what is the point compared to normal clothing , if it isn’t gorgeous? If it doesn’t look good, it might as well be practical or comfortable.

If a sports car isn’t really, non contraversially beautiful, why not just get a slightly sporty version of a more practical car that is more versatile to use?

Z32 300ZX was hard to argue that against it being a beautiful car. FD-RX7 also, some Corvettes also . Miata even, isn’t hard on anyone’s eye, even if it isn’t really aggressive at all. Porsche 997 returned to timeless good looks , although 996's headlight issue that caused controversy, seems to have mellowed with time. ( but perhaps not the interior design.)

Genesis, FT86, 350/370Z, and other sports coupes, like Infiniti Q, Lexus RC, and some others... the NEW Supra... absolutely contraversial looking, some may like them, others may tolerate them, but I am not the only one who does not appreciate the aesthetics.

Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger curb their aesthetic issues by being tied strictly to the distant past generations of those cars that were and are generally appealing, which is it’s own point of contention with people who wish they were a bit more modern and original, rather than retro.